Lighting

Like lighting idea, being able to sit down aswell so it's multifunctional, then there won't have to be so many seats around the site. Forgive me for asking, but whats this thing about hanging lights? Is there an image of it on the blog.?!*!..

Also understand photoluminous (cant bloody spell it) lights leading into the site has to have a large surface area. I don't mind the spheres, i feel the poles could be a little sexier. i've drawn a crude idea above as a SUGGESTION.

Wumizzle

maybe like this?? smaller mirrors i know, this is a bit crude but i hope you get the idea.

Also market is devloping and looking like this.

MODULAR HEXAGONS:

DAY:


NIGHT:



DAY:



NIGHT:

yeah like the hanging idea, go ahead with that if thats a good way of doing it. still a bit concerned about the light reaching underneath maybe have mirrors outside the light on two sides like this:

well the thing is not uploading, but ill scan my sketch in and then post it a little later.

Love the fact it is rechargeable FOREVER!!!! Agree with the lights filtering people to the area, and any way we does this would be fine, i think its the concept of it rather than the details itself that we will get praise for.

Again i agree with the seating thing,if people want to sit on them they can and would be awesome at night, almost like a artificial camp fire.

Your most recent post i really interesting, for the floor ones and when i upload the one i have sketched you can make your own mind up if you think its tooo cumbersome.

Alex

other idea

Other shape idea with flatter top to allow seating?

inside of mould

15 mm shell of photoluminescent plastic

Lighting

I like the seating idea... am not sure weather you would be aloud to suspend it from surrounding building if so would we need to make two types of moulds for the ones that are hung from the buildings? and how much weight can it support if used as seating, how will they bit connected to the ground? apart from that i am happy to go with it...
Esteban the rest still are not back from lunch

Lighting: My ideas. joe

I have been thinking about the lighing, and am thinking that the moulds could perhaps also be interpreted in different ways by users of the site- like they could use them as seats ect which i thought mite be quite nice. the maximum shell thickness for the mould is 15 mm which would support peoples weight.

Lighting: The lighting should be made from photoluminescent plastic. The reason is that this is the best material to make use of the sites natural resource- sunlight. Also the moulds are relatively cheap to make and maintain- can be easily cleaned using water, and this material never ever runs out. it is rechargeable forever!!!

However for this to work there needs to be a surface for the sun to hit so that the light can be absorbed. therefore i think a rounder wider form works better as there are no edges, and also a larger area is able to be hit.

I think the lights should be spread into surrounding streets, to carry the site out into the surrounding areas and make it fit in as part of the wider community. they will also be used to lead people down into the site. i think they shoudl become closer together the nearer they get to the site, and once onsight you might want a variety of these lights. So some high up, some on the ground to mark out patchways and act as makeshift seats or tables (surfaces).

I am not sure what you guys want to do with the shape, i think a round shape works better for the ground and is easier to roll out into different heights in terms of aesthetic, but i take the point that on a pole it does look a bit like a zebra crossing post. below is some examples of some lighting schemes that i took inspiration from.

MAybe leading to the site they are suspended from the surrounding buildings on tension wire into the middle of the street so at night they just look like they are floating? as per sketch.
let me know what you think.

Grass that grows in Mediterranean weather

As spring is almost upon us in the northern hemisphere, most home gardeners in dry Mediterranean climates will be looking at their lawns and wondering if they should be turning on the sprinklers. The question is, is it necessary or desirable to irrigate the lawn at the first hint of warm weather?
Most lawns grown in hot, dry summer climates are perennial grass species that develop deep and extensive root systems by means of underground stems known as rhizomes. Common examples are the Bermuda grasses, Zoysia varieties, Kikuyu grass and Paspalum. They are able to take up water at depths well beyond the topsoil layer. Furthermore, their underground perennial organs make it possible for them to withstand drought to a considerable degree, often recovering splendidly from a brief period of neglect.
The preferred irrigation regime for these grass types is one based on deep, but relatively well-spaced watering, as this induces the roots to grow down into the subsoil. Other than encouraging the lawn to be more drought tolerant, there are numerous benefits to such a regime, such as increased hardiness to pests and disease, and preventing salts to accumulate in the soil.
In early spring therefore, providing a significant rain has occurred within 3 weeks or so, and assuming that the soil depth is over say 75cm, it is best not to water at first, but to wait for a period of time to elapse before doing so. The question is of course: how long should one wait?
For established lawns, it is possible to delay watering until the grass displays the first signs of stress, typified by a change of color and a loss of leaf turgidity. In fact, it is possible to save more water by delaying irrigating for a few further days, and deducting those extra days from the calculation that determines the amount of water that is to be applied. It is safer though for home gardeners not to do this and to open up the sprinklers, when the grass starts to yellow.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Spring-Lawn-Care-In-Mediterranean-Gardens---How-To-Save-Water-And-Grow-A-Better-Lawn&id=1036724

Esteban

Recycled granulated rubber in Madrid

http://www.grupo-cgc.com/english/i-renecal.htm

Have a look at the website!

Esteban

Tings 2 Do

Market:-

Modular?:
-how will this be achieved in an efficient and economic way, making full use of the sight 24/7 (well maybe 20/7)
- What do these modular market thingys look like?
-How will they transform to be use in the night?
- How will tables/ work top be provided?
- System for renting out modular stall?
- Positioning of the market area

Canopy?:
- How big are they?
- How do you expand with this fixed building?
- How are work spaces/work tops provided?
- System for allocation work space/moveable stall?
- Positioning of the market area

Water:
- How is the in water supplied to the market?
- Where is this water sourced?
- Where are the water sources positioned in the market?

Electricity:
- How is the in electricity supplied to the market?
- Where is this electricity sourced?
- Where are the electrical sources positioned in the market?

Lighting:
-Type of lighting? (photoilluminous, LED Luminous, Light bulbs, Flourescent...)
- Material
- Lighting Design for differeny areas of the site
- Size
- Positioning of different lighting around the site

Educational Building
-Number of floors
-Roles designated to each floor
-Size
-Design Exterior and Interior
-Entry point
-What will the open area on the ground floor be used for (when the building closes, and during opening hours.
-Furniture (within and around the building)

Seating:
-Positioning of the seating around the site
-Design of the seating
-Material
-Size

Toilets:
-Positioning of toilets around sight
-Design
-Size
-Maintenance (attendents, self clean, periodic cleaners?...

Pathways:
-How large are the pathways?
-Can you walk clearly from exit to exit?
-Is it open/spacious?
-Design
-Material

Landscaping:
-Types of plants (Native to Madrid? Need minimal watering?)
-Design for green (grass, trees, shrubs, bushes, hedges, flowers etc) area
-Design for granulated rubber area (is seating incorporated in this? What's its lifespan?)
-Maintenance- Who maintains it? How often?
-Dog area- Area for the many dog owners to walk their dogs. Dog Shitting system? (lol)

Dog Bins/Human Bins:
-Design
-Size
-Positioning around the sight

Play Area:
-Where's it going? (Positioning on site)
-Are we changing anything about it? (Design/ Size)

Scale Model
-Showing the topography of the site (slope)
-Models of the fixed buildings already on da site- (schools, community centre, sports court)
-Model of educational building
-Model of Market
-Representation of all of the above on the model
-Models of the surrounding buildings

We got A LOT to do peeps. We need to crack on tmrw ASAP!

Wumizzle 4 Shizzle ;)

Reply

hey Joe

I didn't clearly understand how the paths worked and was unclear of how it looked but Alex explained it clearly when he arrived and things made sence.
The market is not modular because it complicates things i love the detail of a modular market but we found it more logical than rather to waste materials and add expense, it would be more logical to use space already there... to be honest we haven't even fully thought about the market properly, there are still a large amount of important details that haven't been finalised

Everyone is happy to listen to Cristism as long as we can sit down and solve the issues with ideas trust me if you come in tomorrow things will be explained more clearly. All the great ideas that have come out have been by all of us working together so your input and opinion is important.

Esteban

my issues/ apology

Hi group,

i thought i better post as i don't think i articulate myself properly today, i got to stressed and what i was trying to say didn't come out particularly well.

Basically the problems I have with the way the design has gone are as follows;

1: MARKET:

initially we said that the market would be modular. this as i understand it was for two reasons. one so that the market could be adapted and added to as the scheme grows, and two so it could be adapted to keep this area included into the night. This was a point that all the tutors picked up on and said that they liked and was a key point on our proposal, and as far as i can see that idea has completely gone. there is now a shelter, and then just allocated spaces- like a car park. this is used during the day and then is dead at night? well that gets rid of the 24 hour idea, and keeping the site included in the 24 hour city.

2: GRASS SPACES AND PATHS

the way the site has now been split up there seems to be alot of grass land. this seems more to me like an English park than a Spanish piazza and i think that has taken away from the idea we had to open the space up.

the amount of crossing paths are such an English thing- the piazzas in Spain and the rest of the med are open and spacious and dissected into differing areas purely by function. I thought we were trying to open up the site so users can see right through the site, and that people were going to be guided into areas- through lighting ect rather than being told where to walk. I understand that the paths put in are wide so this may not be an issue.

the grass also will dry out. and Madrid has a shorter of water. so how will this be kept up and maintained? i think there needs t be green areas but not dispersed all across the site maybe.


3: CHOICE OF MATERIALS AND ADDITIONAL SCHEMES:

I think that some of the additional things that are being discussed and implemented are things that are being thrown in as a bit of a novelty. I think that these are overshadowing our key schemes and key attributes to out site- the webcam thing for example is purely a novelty, there has been no indication in research that this is needed or even wanted, yet it has become a key point? I like the idea of call centre but i think this can be included in the building, and not just available for everyone- because who then funds this.

4: MULTIFUNCTIONAL SPACE NOW AT EDUCATION CENTRE:

Now it seems becasue we couldnt adapt the market area to include a multifunctional space, there is now a space for performance under the shelter at the education centre. this is a confusion of the two spaces i think- and that the reason for having this "performance" or exhibition space in the market area was so that it was given a focus point that would then allow people to sell mixtures of food, drinks ect in the same area and create a lively atmosphere where people could spend the evenings. with this separated now it feels like a festival site. I am also not sure how this space would facilitate films, or art exhibitions. if you can let me know this that would be good.

5: LIGHTING:

i am worried that the lighting scheme is going to go to waste. i like Esteban's design, but with the material we are looking to use there are a number of things that need to be taken into account. the material needs to have a large surface area in the sun- this is so it can absorb the maximum possible sunlight. it being in a pole shape i don't think will work. Also as you were talking about using the paint based material. this can not be applied to metal, it can only be applied to concrete or woods. also the thickness of the material effects how much energy can be absorbed and stored. therefore a layer of paint may not do the job.

I mean to be honest it seems like all the core points of our proposal have just been completely overlooked and there has been no questioning of how the area functions and works, but its all just gone back to what it looks like. because certain things were challenging it seems they have been completely dropped. the system we came up with i felt was extremely strong and i feel we have lost alot of our core values.

I am fine if things are changing as long as the changes are for clear reasons. i mean as far as i am aware most of the group are happy with how things are but i thought it was important to at least put down what i was trying to say earlier- but because I'm ill it didn't come across very well. i am happy to help build the model and help with the graphics and stuff. to be honest i think it is too late to change too much now but the design proposal needs to be rewritten as our solution no longer supports our design proposal in my eyes.

i dunno, let me know what you think anyway, and apologies for being a dick today.

joe

Lighting

Hey guyz,

these are some architectural lighting solutions for other parts of the site. (i.e market are, market canopy) from this years 100% design. (websites, 1st and 3rd images)


http://www.lite-house.co.uk/flatlite

http://www.quantalight.co.uk/

http://mekatronika.com/quantalight/

http://www.signboxshop.co.uk/store/product_details.vc?productId=303&categoryId=41

Wumizzle

as per comment on post before- lighting scheme document- joe

Lavapies. Madrid
Design for communities
Groupseven.


Lighting system/


The lighting project came about due to analysis into our onsite research. The problems we highlighted were based on the sites geography and physical appearance within the landscape, and also user research in the area.

These problems were.

1) The sites physical exclusion from the surrounding area
2) The poor quality lighting on site meant that after dark the site could not be used.
3) To guide people into the site from surrounding streets.


We understood that a lighting system in conjunction with other measures we were taking could help link the site into the surrounding area and open the area up. We also felt that an exciting lighting scheme could reinforce the impression of investment in the area, and increase pride in the site.


Constraints/

We knew there would be a number of constraints on the scheme, as the costs need to be kept as low as possible. Therefore we needed to find the balance between cost of initial investment, material, and energy costs in the future.

We also wanted the scheme to be as ecologically sound as possible. Therefore taking sustainability in a wider context by making a balanced informed choice not purely based on material, but taking into account the energy needed to produce, transport, and power the lights.

We knew that a large batch of lights would need to be produced, and therefore needed a light that could be manufactured cheaply and easily from a mould.


Idea/

The design is based on an idea where the lighting guides people into the site. Therefore the lighting is dripped out into the surrounding streets.

As you get closer from the site the lights are spaced closer together and get closer to the ground, with some of the lights on site being placed on the ground mapping out pathways and entrances. The aim of this is to act as a “drip feed” into the site, which guides people down onto the site itself. Along the clear site lines we were creating through the site from surrounding streets we felt that this would give an interesting and welcoming view.

The choice of material was key as we needed it to be durable but also make the most of the energy that was available to it within the local area, so the lights become self-energising.
We chose to use photoluminescent plastic. This was for a number of reasons.

We wanted to take advantage of Madrid’s natural resources. Madrid is blessed with a great wealth of sunlight, so we wanted to utilise this to help power features on site.
We looked at solar, and how we could apply that to the lighting system. However we felt the number of components, and systems that needed to be installed, and then the time and money needed to maintain the system was not effective.

Therefore we looked at how we could use smart materials in order to create the same effect but using fewer components, both on the light itself, its energy source, and also in the casing and foundations. We decided on photoluminescent plastic as there have been recent developments in this area that have made the material far more productive. Exposure to 1,000 lux of light for 5 min provides enough energy for up to 32 hr of glow. The intensity of the light is based on how much energy is stored and therefore with Madrid’s sunlight we felt this was a viable option.

The material comes in either pellets or a resin form and therefore can be manufactured using a variety of moulding techniques relatively cheaply. Also through research we found that there were facilities in Madrid where manufacturing could be performed. Therefore only the raw materials may need to be imported.

Also as we are working with a plastic a large range of colours were available which meant we could create an eye catching and “fun” scheme.

They will be extruded steel posts and if we are saying it can be applied on by painting it then it save the need to manufacture the ball part, do you know how long the material last until it fades?
EST

Lighting

EST

quick photoshop example of on site lightballs..

cheers joe

light in the streets

these poles will decrease in size and in distance from one another as they get closer to site, once on site the photoluminescent plastic forms are at floor level mapping paths and areas. they absorb sunlight during the day and use that energy to light up at night.

let me know any thoughts you have- i dont know why but i thought people said they just wanted them like balls so thats why i have done them like that but i can change them if people arnt happy. you cant see from this but there is a piece formed inside- the ball is hollow- 15mm shell- that slips over the pole so it is snug and holds in place. the ball shaped moulds are produced using rotational moulding, which is cheap for batch/ mass producion, and also i have done some research and there are companies in madrid who do rotational moulding. this means only the pigments need to be imported by the looks of things and all further manufacture can be done locally, making the lighting scheme balanced in its approach to sustainability.

cheers joe

#MAYBE SOMETHING TO INCLUDE?#

http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/city-dehumidified.html

This links to a article about "Water Mills" basically a dehumidifier which gathers the water it takes from the atmosphere and alows people to drink it. Madrid is not the most humid city in Europe but it has high humidity at certains times of the day, compare London (where they were going to be installed) to Madrid:

http://travel.theage.com.au/London/Weather

http://travel.theage.com.au/Madrid/Weather

#STRUCTURE#

These are some renders of the structural underbelly of the shelters that we are erecting.

Basically it is a Two Layer Space Frame Structure which has maximum span of 150 metres between struts and at that distance a depth of 300mm

Also as a option the geometry of each frame can either be rectangular, triangular or hexagonal grids.

In this instance I have chosen rectangular but need to speak to greg and layton about which is the best one to use.

#AND SOME MORE#

#learning area#

These are some visuals of the the building, shelter and learning area seating.......

research documet

Hi,

with this research document what i wanted to do was collate all the research from the very first stage. I think we shoudl get the information of our intial research and just put it in the folder. just like internet print outs bits from books ect. This has been whittled down on the research presentation sheets we have ( which i think we also need to add too maybe)

then i think that we should then also stick in the blog, alot of the photos, stakeholder stuff basically all the research we conducted in madrid.

i got a folder today to put it in and ill get dividers tomorrow.

iv also finalised the design proposal i have just changed the bit i put up here, and have also added a seperate section with relevant research that backs up our points. I have got a front cover done aswell and it is in a folder so is a proper document we can include with all our stuff. looks proffessional.

well have a chat about the ideas on monday but i think 100% we need to have all ideas finalised by friday becasue we need to make the model and also need to get the presentation and visuals done ready for the presentation, so are we aggreed on all design ideas finalised by friday at the latest yeah?

Thinking....

Yeah i agree mate and have ammended the building size and shape, it now only consists of one building but the cover spans round the cornerof the boundary of the school and almost onto the road, but it links up with one of the large entrance points i think but need to check when i get in on monday.

Yes the sink issue is better but still no word from the plumber yet, which is a bit shitty!

I agree about the market area, having two different types of market stall one more solid state and one almost completly moveable, this gives us the ability to facilitate many types of market stall, not only fruit+veg, meats and hot and cold foods, but also clothes, books and flowers.

Again Joe I think that collating all of our research, in everyform, wether it be drawn, internet links, the blog etc is a good move but i think that we need to condense it slightly, take the parts we need and get rid of the parts that we dont. Obviously we need to keep a fair amount in about the avenues that we didnt persue to show that we have been objective with our decision and tried to explore different avenues, before we chose the one we are following now.

Furthermore I think we can share the load a bit Joe , its great that you want to collate all the information but i think its a fairly big job so, assigning people different roles would be a good move. I think we can be more productive as a group this way and also when making our own reports we have a more informed idea of what we all did as it is fresh in our minds.

Again I agree with what you are saying about the building, I have made amendments and have halved the buildings size, but kept the cover the same height and width.I have tried to make the building and shelter flow into the landscape, I have done this by making the shelter into one seemless shape from the ground up to the first floor of the building so that people will be able to walk on the top of the shelter and up the first floor [the small blue blocks on the renders represent people]

Under the shelter there will be a free phone service similar to the temporary one in columbus plaza which was there for 2 weeks and was a great success, provide free calls to central and south america. We can expand this using the research we have gathered and make free calls available to Central and South America, China, Bangledesh and North Africa. Also included a large two way webcam like the one on the South Bank by the artist Paul St.george [its on a previous post], i think this will not only appeal to immigrants who live in the srea but spanish nationals who have family in other countries.

On the renders the top of the shelter does not have any handrails around the edge but rest assured there will be just havnt put them in yet.








Any thoughts about colours, or anything else for that matter guys?

Much Love

Alex

MARTA LOOK AT THIS

this is what im trying to say.

you have one building or structure that is permanent. this structure incorporates a bar/ cafe area, and also an additional space.

this additional space can be used as a blank canvas for exhibits performance ect, but can also be adapted by retractable walls which can split the space into trading areas during the day if the space is not being used. In the sketch its the largest part.

then the rest of the market is formed using pods, hich are small simple spaces where people can sell from. the idea is that these can be added as the market grows so that the markets growth can happen more organically as the scheme is successful. this way you dont need to split these pods up in anyway they can just be used to sell from each day and night. it just makes it simpler and means it can grow more naturally. and the pods can be moved around and reorganised if needs be.

please let me know if you get me? if not........wellllll forget it and ill try explain monday. ahha.

joe

LOOK

http://www.moveablewalls.co.uk/products_silenta.asp

http://www.moveablewalls.co.uk/products_observa.as

http://www.becker.uk.com/content/monoplan.html

http://www.becker.uk.com/content/sunflex.html



unless you have a portable partition..but duno..mmm..(below)
http://www.thefind.com/sports/info-portable-partition-flexible-nine-panel

yeh its pretty similar to what i was thinking, but instead of having a whole pod (cube kinda thing) why dont we just have walls that move/slide from the ceiling, and when you dont need them you place them to the side, do you knw what i mean? we dont want to close the pod cos people are coming from each side kinda needs to be open,we just need walls that seperate each stool no? wat do you think?..

marta

ch ch ch ch changes..... building. sports courts as per previosu posts

As you can see the size of the building has been reduced and has become one structure. we all felt that it being split in two detracted from the clear physical hierarchy of progression. it also gives more open space and doesnt dominate too much. i still think it should be a statement of investment fully but just thought the previous structure detracted from the idea behind it. Also the sports court has been rotated so it now sits flat aganst the building length ways so again opens more space for dog walkers, and people who want to relax. it gives a nice flow down the site aswell and allows spectators to watch.

the lighting idea i came up with i think everyone is pretty happy with, we made a few tweaks on the shape but nothing finalised on it. i will be sketching this out for monday and will post sketches as i do them on here. but i think it clearly incorporates the site into surrounding area, uses a sensible material choice- despite being plastc as it is a balanced approach to sustainability in terms of the amount of energy it saves. also the bulbous forms can be batch produced relatively cheaply using roataional moulding.

Add any thoughts or ideas to this post as comments and put your name.
Added this for you records alex. your tired sex moves.

cheers

joe

Market sketch.

I was thinking that you start the area off with a modest small structure. This incorporates a bar/ cafe as we have seen throughout other plazas in madrid. This cafe/ bar is open throughout the day and night, therefore can be used by visitors to the site, people using the sports courts who need a drink or a bite to eat, and people who are working at the education centre. There is a larger space within the same building. that can be divided up and leased to people during the day and night to sell goods or to play music ect. this it able to be divided as the particians can be retracted which opens up a wider blank space that can then be used to exhibit films (visual arts centre), performance (schools, hold community meetings and debates ect.

As the market and employment scheme grows singular "pod structures can be arranged flowing outwards from this site. this allows the market to grow into the space organically and create walkways, and means the market is not as rigid.

let me know thoughts.

joe

hey

hi, hey joe..about the market, yup i agree with wat your saying i think u had the same idea i was telling deniz about the retractable walls, but im not sure its the same, we need to sketch it out, is there any way you can put your sketches up on blog so i know we are on the same line?

marta

Thinking....

Design proposal ammendments

Guys,

been ammeding bits in the design proposal and have including an additional section with relevant research points that back up our plan.

I went through the comments from the "judges"- tutors and saw that there were some questions on whether it was necessary to build onsite- when the education could be facilitated in existing buildings.

I disagree entirely with this point. the whole idea is that we give the area a monument, a symbol of investment so they feel more included within the city. Therefore i have added a point in the proposal reflecting this a bit better. see below;

"We discussed using the existing buildings onsite such as the schools, which could perhaps facilitate this scheme. However we opted to build onsite because we felt it was important for this building not only to facilitate the service but also to be a beacon and a symbol of investment in the area, for the people of Lavapies to be proud of, similar to investment in other areas. We are preserving much of the site in other areas as parkland and therefore we felt it wasn’t overbearing on the rest of the site. "

i think we are definitely right and i think its important to reflect that this was not omething we took lightly and something we thought about alot.

joe

research document.

Guys and girls.

im just going over what we need for our final deadline and we need to submit all our research. im not sure how you normally do this on idea, but i can put together a source document divided up with all of our internet links, articles, photos from site, our blog, as a supporting document, and then we will obviously have our research model and graphic sheets aswell as our analysis of that research. I think it is important to product this document so we can show the amount of research we did.

So i can produce this can everyone post their links from there research area so i can put this together and get it divided up.

Wumi if you can just summarise your timeline onto an A4 sheets so we can put that in too- maybe just dates and title of what happened.

if anyone disagrees let me know but i personally think it would really be a good idea and i dont mind doing it.

we also need to submit a report each, and also need to all submit sketch books.

cheers

joe

PS please comment on previous post about market before monday so we have some ideas for monday.

Alex- todays decisions summary/ market problems.

Hi Alex,

mate as discussed some decisions made today as we spoke about earlier. all group agreed about the building size and shape, and also about the courts twisting length ways. i will put up photos and sketches tomorrow when i get up because im so tired to do it now- just so you can get a clearer idea. hope you got everything orted with your kitchen mate.

Group: I was thinking, the intial building for the "market" could be a larger, multi purpoe structure that could incorporate maye 6/ 7 stalls and then form a multifunctional space (modular retractable walls). then as the expansion grows some pods could then be placed around. this would solve the issues we were having and would be simple and cheaper to construct, and would mean the market could grow more organicly through the area- as marta and deniz wanted. so it can form around the contours of the land and weave its way around.

Please post thoughts about this on this post over the weekend so we can have some idea of what we are doing for monday. Also if you comment please sign off with your name so we know who thinks what.

thanks.

joe

Grass posibilities...

Types of Grass.
The availability of different grasses will of course depend upon the geographical location of the garden. One popular American strain is Bermuda grass which thrives in dry conditions, though is likely to take over if not trimmed regularly. Carpet Grass and Bahia Grass are also viable alternatives and can be seeded or sodded, though the attention to detail when sodding is essential. In dry areas where the soil has been damaged, and there is unlikely to be much rain, to enable the sods to settle without shrinking leaving ugly seams, these need to be laid and overlapped

http://www.helium.com/items/1125845-growing-a-lawn-in-a-dry-climate-dry-climate-grass

Stakeholder Pictures...